asciilifeform: ( at some point we will have to solve the puzzle of just how many trb nodes it makes sense to have inside 1 cage, i also suspect )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: be sure to use trb with sync sanity, cuts sync time from 6+months to coupla weeks at worst
asciilifeform: but trb nodes really oughta all be within a few blox of one another at all times.
asciilifeform: it's one thing where prb refuses to serve trb node blox, or puts out some oddball liquishit that gets it malleus'd, etc
asciilifeform: mod6: let's restate the general principle. if you have two or moar trb nodes, and they are 'in communion' with one another regularly, and yet one is several 100 blox behind the other(s) -- THIS IS A BUG
asciilifeform: observe also that even 'aggressive' trb only demands newblox when a peer ~connects~
mircea_popescu: trb is whatever the foundation releases.
mircea_popescu: but it;s not that machine is useless "for trb work". current trb is useless for machine work.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-27#1777409 << a properly rewritten trb-blockchain would actually work ok on plated disks.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-27#1777388 << at the risk of repeating -- mechanical hdd is ~useless for trb work
asciilifeform: mod6: this was in response to a hypothetical 'but why do we even need releases' , not re current trb www
asciilifeform: granted this is less of a headache in 'minerless' trbi variants.
asciilifeform: ( dulap had ~ok trb performance on spinning rust, but it had striped raid . and STILL couldn't keep up with ssd zoolag, despite the latter being a box the size of my fist, with no raid, on residential fiber )
asciilifeform: imho 'trb release' makes sense as a thing -- conservative 'this worx' item
asciilifeform: in trbland
asciilifeform: it means, simply enuff, whatever item ben_vulpes & mod6 proclaim 'this is a trb release'
asciilifeform: the old sync behaviour is profoundly retarded tho, asciilifeform felt quite stupid for not having fixed it in the first yr of trb's life
asciilifeform finds the 'tx references outputs of old tx, rather than addrs' to be a profoundly trisomistic shitoshiism -- but we can come back to this at next 'trb-i' thread
asciilifeform: trinque: which trb is this
asciilifeform: !!rate shinohai 3 heathendom newsdesk; pogotronics, trb, FG experimenter
asciilifeform: !!rate danielpbarron 3 operates heathenbux-denominated FUCKGOATS dealership; trb experimenter; history of doing The Right Thing
asciilifeform: in other oddities from asciilifeform's wwwtron referlog : http://armoredcoin.org << anybody here wants to confess to authorship of this ? it claims interop with trb , compliance with asciilifeform's '7laws' , etc
asciilifeform: the trb treatment.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774125 << phf neato. mod6 : prolly this oughta go instead of the old one, in trb www.
mircea_popescu: you know ftr trb node state of blockpool has improved tremendously.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: look at the trb tree, and picture what the mass of the patches would have been, if this requirement had been in effect when i made it.
asciilifeform: as i did in trb.
asciilifeform: trinque: first step is to genesis a gnat. ~then~ patches... a la trb
asciilifeform: their cumulative mass dwarfs , e.g., trb.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765881 << sanity looks like this : 'trb since 2015 is made of v. and works. and quite compact. and fundamentally mechanics are correct.'
asciilifeform: if trb tree can continue to look EXACTLY like http://btcbase.org/patches ( with new leaves growing ) -- your vtron is usable. if not -- not.
asciilifeform: trinque: consider how i solved this in trb.
asciilifeform: btw what does trb's ssl do with crafted der-encoded derpery ?
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque how does deedbot's block-fetch history for past 2wk look ? zoolag's performed very, very well re 'tip of spear' , and there appear to exist at least 5 other fully-synced trb boxen that regularly speak to it.
asciilifeform: item aint strictly about 'clouds' tho, quite broad, includes errything from www browsers with scripting, to , potentially, trb's commandprocessor
asciilifeform: i expect there'll be plenty of rubbish in the genesis. as there was in trb.
asciilifeform: ( in particular the orphanages amputations. good chunk of bandwidth is TO THIS. DAY. wasted , by prbtrons throwing their liquishit at trbtron )
asciilifeform: the intrinsic difficulty of a trbtron's job is more or less 100% in dealing-with-prb.
asciilifeform: in mostly but not wholly-unrelated noose, asciilifeform searched the market for little lcd thing one could plug into usb jack, to have trbtron display height at all times while it sits on the shelf. but TO THIS DAY none exist that cost less than THE FUCKING MACHINE lol
asciilifeform: 99.99999%+ of what gets 'pushed' to a trb node, is thrown straight into the rubbish
asciilifeform: pushing dun do much for a trb node, who needs at any given time THAT ONE SPECIFIC NEXT block
asciilifeform: mod6 plox to re-add zoolag to trb roster.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i am looking to set up a handful of trb nodez 1) small, 'disposable' boxen 2) for fiatolade 3) with decent , i.e. at least 100mb symmetric ea. 4) NOT all in same cage
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too.
asciilifeform: as for nodes at the 'tip', the path of chinesium through layers of prb is a lottery, and i suspect that attempting to measure the effect of a trb patch on said behaviour is doomed to astrologize over noise
asciilifeform: if it dun have a trb genesis, proving to proverbial martian that it really does have classical 0.5.3 pedigree, goes from trivial to monumentallypainful
mircea_popescu: ie, i don't expect the trb cut as described to have a trb genesis necessariyl, or even probably.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong either in principle or in practice with making a correct item as the genesis and then patching in various parts of trb.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform introduced the schemetron 1st, and only 2nd the glue in trb, and they were not automagically v-linked
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ( trinque ? ) what ~concrete~ operation on trb tree did v-as-it-nao-exists keep you from easily carrying out ? i'd like to see ?
asciilifeform: ( i.e. it is already inescapably linear. asciilifeform half-expected that the kakoschism would produce a long-playing split of the trb universe, but neverhappened. not every possible thing, happens... )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758779 << i see e.g. trb tree, as the frayed end of a rope. in long term, observe, the loose ends that dun get built on -- fade away, like orphan chains. btc is actually more or less same kind of system. but iirc we had this thread.
asciilifeform: which, in the whole picture, does not come close to topping the list of the hardest labours of a trb experimenter
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but asciilifeform often ( almost always, in fact ) runs trb during tests, in pure userland, making use of 0 systemwide loggings )
asciilifeform: what i'd like to see is 'was it from a trb?'
asciilifeform: that already printed ( the latter , in classical trb, mutilated )
mircea_popescu: but honestly i'd prioritize db-fix-and-trb-split discussed over these rather cosmetic by comparison improvements.
asciilifeform: exactly like what an unpatched trb does for first hour or three of boot
mircea_popescu: trb dun get malleus'd anyway
asciilifeform: well right nao it's pulling blox from other trb's, at ~100% efficiency
asciilifeform: ... as mircea_popescu prolly intuited , it remains possible that 'aggression' takes the trb<->prb link breakage from , say, the 80% of before, to 100% , and i would not learn about it until reaching tip.
mircea_popescu: for as long as you have other trbs up to speed to support you. but still, useful mod.
asciilifeform: it did take a while to reach this state, given as 'wires' are no longer in use. had to actually connect to a working and nonblackholed trb.
asciilifeform: this is testable empirically; like-so: any N trb nodes built with 'aggression' patch above, and linked via 'wires', should never fall out of height-sync with one another by more than a coupla blox. at any point.
asciilifeform: *where any 2 trb nodes connect, and...
asciilifeform: analysis so far : ^^item^^ results , at last , in situation where any 2 trb nodes, and 1 is 'ahead' of the other, the 'trailing' node is guaranteed to be fed.
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque where didja get the log-timestamps in your trb ? ( which patch pressed to ? )
asciilifeform: shinohai: trb needs a disk
asciilifeform: anybody got 2 trb-capable boxen, on separate ip but equal in bw ? can be in heathendom isp or wherever.
asciilifeform: and speaking of hasty and untested , asciilifeform has a 'aggressive sync mode' trb patch, which will need a proper differential test
asciilifeform: as i understood trb historically was 'and here is bitcoin minus the post-2011 barnacles, deviate at your own risk, derps, it will still be there an' working'
asciilifeform: ideally reference-trb is capable-of-everything, incl. cpumining ( see the dozen or so threads at this point )
mircea_popescu: anyway, continuing the trinque discussion, it seems entirely unavoidable that trb will become 3 things : a wallet node, optimized for pumping out local signed tx ; a block node, optimized for keeping the blockchain, getting blocks, no mempool nonsense ; and a spy node, optimized to keeping track of the lies and nonsense flowing through the relay network (mempool, timing nodes, what have you).
mircea_popescu: bb broadfly has it, there's a narrow sliver of bw trb/prb can even use ; more than that it generally wastes.
mircea_popescu: by the time your trb node eats 10 MBps even, you've more serious problems than "buy more pipe". and that's inst not sustained.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: should hope so. because 100mb ain't enuff for even 1 trbtron
mircea_popescu: in other sads : one trb node was dead since fucking 22nd of august, because -- it ran into the fabled "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbRunRecoveryException' what(): DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery" which then kicked in a script to clean it up, which it did, but couldn't boot back up because for yet-unknown reasons there was a spurious .lock leftover ; corner case u
asciilifeform: trinque: the 1 common thread in asciilifeform's lab notes from birth of trb to today, is that once they fall behind, they stay behind, until reset. (often more than one reset.)
asciilifeform: aside from brief period at bootup, a trb node DOES NOT TRY TO SYNC AT ALL, passively waits for someone to come and feed it. forever.
asciilifeform: quite heavy compared to even, say, trb.
asciilifeform: btw some very large share of 'no can haz trb, plz help' in the logs to date, feature shituntu
asciilifeform: pretty sure that mod6 hosts a curl, at trb www
asciilifeform: fact is, trb sync is ragingly retarded. as in , microshit-level.
asciilifeform contemplates placing trb on ramdisk on this box
asciilifeform: but the results ( at least in asciilifeform's torture room ) have been disappointing, currently afaik nobody even knows why bdb ignores locks knob ( perma-hosing trb ) !! under bsd
mircea_popescu: trb-as for anti-sybil.
asciilifeform: and 4G typically suffices to run trb 'year-round'.
asciilifeform: btw asciilifeform will reveal that he found a 'new' (to him) and very spiffy type of amd g-series box , suitable for trb and similar
asciilifeform trying very different tack re 'trbi' than in prev thread, instead of massive warcrime , series of small gedankenexperiment.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1753954 << i have up to date nodes ; both trb and legacy. but the phenomena described is recurrent since at least 18 months ago.
asciilifeform: this gedankenexperiment should be seen in light of the earlier 'all tx have absolute position and make references to absolutepositional outputs' item from earlier 'trbi' thread.
asciilifeform: nominally libc doesn't go in a gnat-baked elf, so it isn't quite the same urgency as musltronic gcc-for-trb was
asciilifeform: ( trb-genesis, for better or worse, was a plain cut of the original material. ended up preserving the idiocy of empty file. )
asciilifeform: where the linkage was ~not~ mechanically clear, because it appeared merely as a set of external symbols inside trb, rather than a proper lift of the files
asciilifeform: diana_coman: pretty sure it is same as mod6 has on trb www
asciilifeform: interestingly , this item was the 2nd thing asciilifeform ever genesised ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000175.html ) . 1st was trb.
asciilifeform: ( aside from some obsolete matter on trb ml )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is also in the process of standing up trb on dulap-III , an opteron monster not yet homed.
asciilifeform: also notably, mircea_popescu , yer trb box was the champ medallist, outlived even dulap.
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu re 46.166.160.36 / http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html : is that box still around ? because if it is, yer trb is hung
asciilifeform: but will note that, e.g., trb, builds cleanly on e.g. arm ( and iirc ppc also )
asciilifeform: or could be >0, depending on whether e.g. having trb around, is worth +
asciilifeform: all trb boxen where log wasn't cut off, have day-by-day, neh
asciilifeform: ( getting this number from a trbtron is still a manual process. )
asciilifeform: spyked: musl however worx great, trb stands on it. and iirc trinque has an entire musltronic gentoo.
asciilifeform: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html << grep for gcc
asciilifeform: you can produce this mechanically. the unfortunate bit is that it gives same problem as basing trb on original 5.3.1 tarball contents did
asciilifeform: and it's a perfectly legit ( manually ground, from mpi, just like trb genesis was from 0.5.3 ) genesis.
asciilifeform: hey i still to this day use jurov's system, whenever submitting trb patch.
asciilifeform: same way we avoid gavinization of trb, for instance.
asciilifeform: if yer disk is too small to rotate debug.log by hand 1-2x/year, it is too small to run trb !!
asciilifeform does not currently have even 1 up-to-top trb node !
asciilifeform: sooner turn pig into a professor of mathematics, than cpp trb into sanity.
mircea_popescu: trinque you won't be able to fix trb into sanity without new classes.
mircea_popescu: mod6 in any case don't completely abandon the trb-v castle, you're like our last guy there i fear
asciilifeform: how would trb pay a 3, lol
asciilifeform: hey trinque check your boxes that had 'wires', they are probably STILL running, and trbing to it
asciilifeform: in other lulz, something closely resembling trb node on ex-dulap ( 46.166.165.30 ) still running... though i do not recommend it for any practical use
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is it working as intended, or is the result trb-like ( 'life support patient' ) ?
asciilifeform: like trb! ( but i'ma not repeat, because at this point everybody knows )
asciilifeform: ahhahaha exactlylike trb
asciilifeform: ugh sounds like trb
asciilifeform: ./v.pl p v trb54 makefiles.vpatch <<< is the answer
asciilifeform: ( btw is it clear that buildroot is only part of the trb universe because we dun have a musltronic linux to do ordinary stator builds in ? )
asciilifeform: and iirc we also had thread re how crapple is not in business because asciilifeform reads trb coad and 1970s 'химия и жизнь' on a crappad
asciilifeform: ( remember, an unsynced trb node rejects ~ALL tx )
asciilifeform: ^ asciilifeform's very painstaking 'trbfication' of koch
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and in your trb wot dir likewise.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-14#1714258 << funkenstein was an odd d00d: shat on trb, but lifted it wholesale for use in his altwhatever; today hangs in kakolandia and misses no chance to hurrdurrmpisafraud etc
asciilifeform: and so long all trb nodes ?
mircea_popescu: rothbart if you have it in a portable data format, can just feed it into trb
asciilifeform: 1) move the btc using trb, to new addr 2) import (now empty on btc chain) privkey into shitcoin node 3) empty the shitcoins into a gox 4) sell
asciilifeform: move the btc using a trb node
mircea_popescu: it'd help if we first had a trb wallet model.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711819 << prb wasn't involved here, was operating on trb .dat's
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711763 << yes, to fish out CHANGE addresses in trb you must FOLLOW txns trees to the unspent leaf. true pain in butt.
mircea_popescu: shinohai: "connections" : 5, << i think that's how many of the trb list are actually up atm
asciilifeform: a trb node that's perpetually months (or yearz) behind topheight, mainly sits around rejecting tx all day long
asciilifeform: because even in whole 1G i never saw trb live for >week
asciilifeform: how long your longest run of trb on pogo, danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: it is why i work on, e.g., trb, despite having scarcely any coin personally.
asciilifeform: probably never yet seen trb, either...
mircea_popescu: ah. no i meant, is jhvh1 sitting atop a trb node feeding !~blocks
mircea_popescu: um. how would trb see the tx anyway ? it dun interpret segwit
asciilifeform: stock trb dun help much
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not sure what's easier, eulora install or trb install. they're very similar processes for some reason (har har)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702779 << core hasn't yet hardforked from trb. their "segwit" thing is a "soft fork". basically they intend to make everyone's transactions be blockchain messages instead of actual transactions.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702761 << run trb. follow mod6 's instructions, it's a relatively painless half hour install on most any sane linux.
asciilifeform: the reason why mike_c's node appears 'stalled' is that it stopped fetching blocks. trb's block sync behaviour is unspeakably moronic, it will attempt 'long sync' ONCE, on warmup
asciilifeform: if trb node is not fetching blocks, but is not showing symptoms of 'black hole'
asciilifeform: !~later tell mike_c http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-23#1702508 << this is NORMAL behaviour for a trb node. and see below re 'stalls' :
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hilariously wrong description of trb
mircea_popescu: i mean, a trb capable machine is somewhere in the 50-100 bux / month range, certainly an expense but not the end of the world.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702394 << it is zoolag, it is resyncing, and ( i assume everybody knows ) it is ~impossible to usefully connect to a trb node that is syncing
asciilifeform: spyked: trb is very long way from 'sane object' but otherwise yes.
asciilifeform: i use it in workstations. but the cost is imho misplaced in a trb node, which are supposed to be a redundancy layer p2pfully in themselves !
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: as i understand it's a couplea line patch to trb
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes was it you who had a trb patch abolishing the idiotic truncation of block and tx hashes in debug.log ? where did it go ?
asciilifeform: i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mike_c http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1700623 << why was it necessary to use closed turd client ? ( what's the actual diff in the lolfork anyway ? the 2mb thing ? could exist as a lulzpatch for trb, even, in principle )
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG panzers!! trb node 'zoolag' is back in business, this time as ordinary linux box -- syncing from 0 . same ip as prev.
asciilifeform: mike_c: congrats on building trb, incidentally
asciilifeform: other idea is to demonstrate that trb can work without riding on top of existing telecom structure.
asciilifeform: also interesting to mike_c will be the 'trbi' threads..
mircea_popescu: mike_c but look at the new v-based trb build
asciilifeform: the index won't read by trb.
asciilifeform: also i thought mention of mp/trb/et al were a hangin' offense at tardstalk
asciilifeform: and there's a history of trb nodes of various types perma-wedging there
asciilifeform: this thing behaves precisely like trb sans locks patch, i think
asciilifeform: i dun think it is anything to do with that tx per se -- it is the drop that overflowed the barrel in pre-dblockspatch trb
asciilifeform: until this 'not' remains, trb ain't a program, it's a voodoo incantation.
asciilifeform: naively thought 'i'll start with the smallest trb node!'
asciilifeform: trb on linux : does
asciilifeform attempts a build of traditional stator trb inside netbsd ( as rotor is unnecessary there, there is no drepper glibc )
asciilifeform: ( no trb yet, but enough to re-pour the cement... )
asciilifeform: well i have. currently, by expecting 1 fewer trb testbed..
mircea_popescu: and ~possibly~ easier than to sanely rewrite trb
mircea_popescu: there';s no fundamental reason trb needs more than about 5mb or so of ram ; but this aside : gotta find a way to put your own ram in the damned arm boxes.
asciilifeform: trb in 256M ain't happening.
asciilifeform: extra infuriating detail -- i dun specifically need x86 for this , trb runs ok on arm. BUT all extant arms have soldered down (and insufficient) ram.
asciilifeform: btw in case this wasn't clear, this was zoolag , which did 2+ yrs of 24/7 trb.
asciilifeform: and this is true of pretty much any box that makes decent trb node (i.e. has sata3 + ssd )
asciilifeform: ( and in fact it ran on my pogo. but that doesn't produce a usable trb node. )
asciilifeform: not sure how that goes directly with trb
asciilifeform: also lol re the attempted theft of the name 'trb'/'the real bitcoin'
asciilifeform: for clarity : asciilifeform ain't inluvv with superH. but he ~does~ search for a cpu where 1) respectable (say, even trb-capable) horse 2) no internal flash rom 3) not ARM
asciilifeform: in other noose!, a samsung ssd lasts about 2y in a high-traffic trb node.
asciilifeform: ... though i can see what mircea_popescu means. prb would not, iirc, eat a highS block. and several other types that trb happily eats.
asciilifeform: interestingly asciilifeform recently learned that the 'mutate high to low S and broadcast malleated tx but ONLY if a 'doublespend attempt' ( you retransmitting, say, with patched trb ) is detected ' thing is STILL running
mircea_popescu: trb has problems resulting from being written by monkeys.
asciilifeform: it is a problem in the same way as it is for trb.
mircea_popescu: a solution to the problem would actually help trb too
mircea_popescu: or stand up a log bot, or whatever. run a trb node. run the ada implementation passed around recently of a big number calculator and produce 655356! to compare with the given values.
asciilifeform: nothing observable to ~people~ -- i.e. folx using trb -- yes. to redditus running gavincoin etc - thermonukokalypse
asciilifeform: phf: imho sampling profilers are a wholly useless thing, 'horse with pedals', unless you're working a honeywagon (e.g. virginal trb) and have deeply nfi what the hell the program is doing
asciilifeform: afaik deedbot is currently the only thing auto-signing ( inside its tx-issuing trb )
asciilifeform: hey, they gotta keep inmat^H^H^H^H^Hstudents from hosting warez/trb/etc terrorisms somehow!1111
asciilifeform: it will have to be confiscated from the monkeys, like trb was.
mircea_popescu: allows you a trb editing environment at any rate
asciilifeform: what trb item have you tested, IamAGirlsoInever ?
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i have nfi who trb node 208.94.240.42 belongs to, but it's been stuck in the 300,000s for ~ages~
mircea_popescu: once that is in place, a proper p2p mechanism can be built and trb will work way the fuck better than prb ever could.
mircea_popescu: wires patch is not different ; still same trb.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the world of sad prototypes : asciilifeform discovered ( and why did it have to be ' asciilifeform discovered ...' when other folx were nominally also testing...) that trb node with 'wires' still happily falls behind by 100s of blox, and never catches up,
asciilifeform: at one time he grudgingly tested some trb
asciilifeform: reference trb gotta keep working, uninterrupted,
asciilifeform: idea , however, is that it will run blox past trad trb ( netless , mempoolless trb ) as 'final court'
asciilifeform: hence why all of asciilifeform's trb work from month or so ago and forever more, is about losing the cpp hairball.
asciilifeform: it syncs when hits a fellow trb by accident and that's mostly it.
asciilifeform: if you believe the heathen chart ('bitnodes'), 'falcon' mega-relay-network etc has ~same number of nodes as... their count of trb.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that rather make that, best make new comp. trb-i all over again.
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers! anyone who noticed that his trb wire to dulap dropped last night -- the thing was rebooted (without my permission) ~13 hours ago.
asciilifeform: and lol , mircea_popescu's lament is ~exactly asciilifeform's ~yearly 'when i stop writing trb fixes, they stop getting written'...
asciilifeform: ( before mircea_popescu balks -- 'trbi' ain't btc )
mircea_popescu: nitpick : move 2016 to 2017 on trb.org main page
mircea_popescu: what i was looking for was, supposing the whole of trb looks like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YOK7i/?raw=true then something like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qGO07/?raw=true
asciilifeform: it resembles trb 'wires' .
asciilifeform: glibc is also not supported for trb.
asciilifeform: for trb, that is.
asciilifeform: y'know, when trb sits like idiot and waits for bdb to disk i/o.
asciilifeform: ^ all but the last is mostly wasted on trb
mircea_popescu: which is how trb-i even became an item.
mircea_popescu: this adds ben_vulpes to the list of people who seriously considered the matter of snipping trbn into shape, came to ~same conclusion, ie that rewrite is unavoidable.
asciilifeform: today - 'trb-i', ciphers of known strength, a few others.
mircea_popescu: this might even fix it, but it's not certain, given the festival of adhoc magic numbers trb is also known as.
mircea_popescu: well, hopefully this problem gets resolved by crap not making it into trb-i
asciilifeform: i find it slightly outrageous that i have a pressed aluminum ratheadlinux from 1990s but not a pressed aluminum gcc4.9 or trb-genesis etc
mircea_popescu: merv, or generally the mongol reduction of persia from a coupla million to a coupla hundred thousand is the fundamental civilisational act. not the building of the scum, but the purging of it. much like "writing prb" is not an achievement in computer science ; but purging it into trb is.
asciilifeform: i propose a declaration of 'tx replacement is an attack against sane bitcoin and whoever does it, is the forker, and not us, who thereafter ban it in trb and subsequent proggies.'
asciilifeform: let's say we find that, e.g., gcc past 3.x embeds an off-by-one-ization in memcpy() , dependant on payload, and that it is triggerable specifically in trb tx processing.
asciilifeform: i have plenty of 'c machines' right here that cannot run trb (on account of 'too small addr space' or 'too slow clock', take your pick.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not trb's identity was being defined. the c machine's was.
asciilifeform: at any rate this is a bizarre line of thought. trb (or rather, bitcoin, the existing network) has any kind of long term future ~strictly~ if it can be entirely separated from the cpp abortion.
mircea_popescu: yes. definition of "lisp machine" ALSO IS "item which runs trb"
asciilifeform: trb (the currently existing item) could quite conceivably run on entirely different type of machine, under emulation (smbx , for instance, shipped... believe -- a c compiler, in genera. along with fortran, ada..)
mircea_popescu: c machine does have a specific meaning, and it is "item which runs trb."
asciilifeform: ( this also ignores the -- screamingly evident -- fact of trb being ~algorithmically~ defective. as explored on several occasions here. )
mircea_popescu: "c machine" defined as "item that runs trb" is thereby fixed through becoming more apparent than it previously was.
mircea_popescu: at the very least things were learned about how trb is ~supposed to~ function, and this is sufficient to qualify it.
asciilifeform: do what you will to trb, it is still written in idiot language that does not check bounds, on idiot iron that does not check bounds.
mircea_popescu: it is trying to fix the trb, which is a component of the c machine, defined as "runs trb"
mircea_popescu: in any proper statement, all the eg trb foundation's work goes towards one fold of "fixing c machine" in this sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "runs trb".